If you think about it, it's easier for televoters to be neutral..juries after all are chosen by a public broadcaster so we don't know what directions they may have (and I'm talking about my country, too, here).
I can give you an example, too. In the years 1975-1997 (only juries voted) Greece gave Turkey...7 points (yes, seven!). In 22 years! Now, in the years 1998-2009 we gave Turkey 36 ..still not many but much more than before!
Same goes for Turkey...in the 1st case they had given us ...13 points..and in the televoting era..58.
So, who's more biased? The jury or the public?

I'm sorry to tell u the thing started from the forum , and was transfered to the chat.
And I dident tell juries are worse than televoting. After all , I believe juries have helped the ESC the last 2 years. What I'm saying is that BOTH are biased.

FINALLY Mina......
FINALLY!!!!

My opinion stays as it is, that I find the whole thing about the Turkish juries being Islamic biased is going too far. The juries may have been more biased in the past Mina, but it's not a secret that the juries were brought back in 2009 because televoters started to be more biased and predictable than ever.

I know, Chelsea, but in the following years, just like in 2009 and 2010, I believe that neither the Turkish nor the Greek juries will give points to each other...I really hope I'm wrong on this.

It is easier to bribe juries and to fix them yes, however when you see the results of the Turkish televote (Azerbaijan having more than twice as many votes as the runner up), the televote may aswell be bribed because it's that biased.

But if both the jury and televoting give 12 to the same country, whats the point? If I remember right, last year the Turkish jury had also given 12 pts to Azerbaijan again.

Yeah thats also true, but that is only the case with a handful of countries. I think we oughtta remember that in most countries the juries do actually provide some variation to the usually predictable voting.

I dont know, Jonny. Considering that last year the televoting top 10 and the juries top 10 were almost the same, with minor exceptions, I dont know if thats true. I think that only 5 years later we will be able to see exactly if and how juries help.

Imo juries do help. But they don't help enough so that the result is honest and non-biased.
As Jonny said , there are always a handful of countries that are always getting votes from certain countries.
For example , the turkish jury voted in 2009 12 to Azerbaijan , 10 to Albania , 8 to Russia , 4 to Bosnia-H. , and in 2010 it was 12 to Azerbaijan , 10 to Albania , 8 to Bosnia-H , 7 to Russia . Sounds trully weird.
But we do notice that there are some differences with the televoting , maybe not significant ones , but still. This is just the case of Turkey votes.
Last year tho , we noticed significant changes to the Greek votes. The Greek jury gave 12 to the UK and 10 to France , and that change the whole Greek vote!! We even gave 12 TO THE UK (;D Jade (L))!! That would happen no other way than with the juries.
Generally , I believe it does help.
Tack.

A 1/3 jury contribution would possibly be more appropriate. And that 2-point gap thing between 8 and 10 and 10 and 12 should be dropped, because one has to take the reality of today's world into account and acknowledge that diaspora and neighbouring voting will always be in the way, thus the values of the points have to be revised. They could be, for example, converted into 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (instead of 10) and 10 (instead of 12) points, or it could be decided that Top 12 lists would be made out of the votings, thus having 11 and 12 points as well.
This system of points would also give the songs performed early in the show a wider chance of winning, because the advantage that the songs performed late have over them would be slighty reduced, and since there are around fourty countries voting, a 1-point gap instead of a 2-point gap between the first and the runner-up and between the runner-up and the second runner-up in a country's voting results, would really help.
There's also the fact that the system of points currently used was brought to the show in a time when less than 20 countries were taking part.

That sounds good to me !!

even the case is turkey here,i dont believe things will change not only here but also in other balkan countries whom are christian.there will always be a non objective voting and probably my taste will always fail as points go to specific countries but if u ask me i prefer our twelve to go to azerbaijan instead of armenia as the votes-crime belongs to turks not the armenian diaspora that way